128: "I move a lot and that's okay." Being a third culture kid and creating stories for military-connected families with Shermaine Perry-Knights

Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I am your Creator and co host and HMOs. And as always, I have my amazing co host with me, genuine strip. Jalen. Welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:13

Hey, glad to be here today.

Jen Amos 0:15

And I am happy that you're here today because it's one of those rare days as of late where you have very minimal interruptions. So I'm excited to hopefully get your undivided attention. In our conversation today.

Speaker 1 0:28

We'll keep our fingers crossed. My children are home from school as we're recording on election day. So they are currently happily playing video games, but sometimes that could go either way, depending on who's winning.

Jen Amos 0:40

Yeah. Oh boy. Oh, boy. Okay, well, luckily, we have an amazing editor. That makes it sound like we're not being distracted. But without further ado, we are really excited. I myself, especially because having grown up as a military child, I don't often get to engage with other people who also grew up in this lifestyle as a kid. And so I'm excited to bring on Charmaine Perry knights who is an award winning facilitator, project manager, speaker and author. And like I mentioned a proud military kid. You can learn more about her at her website, books for military families COMM And also check out her books on Amazon all available there if you search for her name, Charmaine, Perry knights. So without further ado, Charmaine, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:22

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited.

Jen Amos 1:25

Yeah, now we're really happy to have you, we already had a lot of offline conversation, including some zoom filter tips. So like, we should get started before we go down a rabbit hole with that one. But I thought I'd ask you let me start by asking you a question. You know, our show is called holding on the forts, and the phrase holding on the floor to mean something different for everyone. And so I want to ask you, when you hear that phrase, actually, let me start by saying, let me say that again, I was going to ask you a snapshot of your life. That's what I was. That's what I meant to ask. Okay, let me say that one more time. Okay. So as you know, our show is called holding down the fort. And I want to ask, what is holding down the fort look like for you nowadays. And what I'm really asking is, give us a quick snapshot of your life, just so our listeners can get an idea of who you are.

Speaker 2 2:07

st, what it means at least in: 2021

Jen Amos 2:40

I love that. At the time of this recording. I'm currently on a farm in the middle of nowhere, so we did not celebrate Halloween this weekend. I think it would require a lot of work for kids go from one farm to the next. Ask for candy.

Speaker 2 2:52

But are there corn fields? Yes, but they did celebrate? Yeah. Okay, cool.

Unknown Speaker 2:58

That's that counts. I make that count. Yes.

Speaker 1 3:00

We just did the whole Halloween thing too. I am happy that it is today's post my kids are still on a sugar high, which may be part of the interruption because I'm pretty sure they've eaten a steady diet of candy for the last two days despite my best efforts to parent them otherwise. God bless the teachers like yeah, no.

Jen Amos 3:22

Yeah. And you know, I mean, I love how you opened up with holding down the fort to me, especially during you know, this last, I would say a year and a half, almost two years now is you know, maintaining my mental health. That's a big conversation. Jenny Lynn and I bring up on the show every time so I just appreciate you opening up by you know, humanizing yourself and really acknowledging how difficult this time had been. I think for me, like part of why I've been so ambitious with podcasting is because it is the one thing that helped me held down the fort mentally you know, during this time, so thank you for you know, opening up with that and being so candid about taking care of your mental health.

Speaker 2 3:57

I totally get it for me writing is that reading is that as well taking a walk every day just finding something to do with my time and that creative outlet? There is nothing like it it just that is the Forte that's holding and the board itself Hello man.

Speaker 1 4:14

Totally you're speaking my language like writing for me is that place that I find stability also walking and reading although I have found like in the last 18 months, my reading material has shifted drastically to like nothing but a steady diet of easy nonfiction. Like I can't do like the hard teach you thing books that I love. I have a ton of them. I mean, you guys can see my library behind me. None of these are fiction books. All of these are nonfiction things and I probably haven't picked one up in at least 14 months because it just the weight of pandemic life and PCs saying and CDD like is heavy enough. So I've been reading a study that I have excellent fiction novels.

Jen Amos 5:02

I get it. Yeah. And I know that like, one thing you like to do as you're sleeping regimen is to start reading fictional books after eight o'clock at night. And I love that. I love that. That's kind of like your way of kind of wrapping up your day.

Speaker 1 5:16

Oh, for sure. Yeah, trying to read something that's supposed to teach me things or grow, you know, or help me grow like bass eight o'clock at night is probably not gonna land, like mentally done for the day above in and so yes, lots of good fiction.

Unknown Speaker 5:33

Yeah, for sure.

Unknown Speaker 5:34

I'm gonna borrow that tip.

Unknown Speaker 5:35

Yeah, there you go. Yeah,

Speaker 1 5:37

I have a list of books I can tell you about offline that I've read in the last year and a half that were fantastic.

Jen Amos 5:43

You know, actually, I might want to ask for that recommendation, because I'm trying to find ways to tune out at night too. So anyway, cut off. Later. Speaking of books remain, you have a book that we are going to talk extensively about today, which I'm really excited about, which is titled I move a lot. And that's okay. Tell us a little bit about this book for people that are hearing about it for the first time. I know, first and foremost, it's about a military children. But what can they expect when they read this book? Well,

Speaker 2 6:12

so just like you did,

Speaker 2 6:13

I grew up military travelled across the world my entire life. And it's simply the story that we wished we had as kids to make our travels a little bit easier. So in the story, you'll see grace, she is the main character, and I named her grace intentionally, because you need to give yourself a little grace, love. Plus, I just love the name. She takes a trip from Georgia with less than a year of being there, and PCs, all the way to Southern Italy, which we actually did, and has to encounter new culture, new language, new foods, new environment, you know, getting used to the smell of sulfur in the air, which is not something people here in America are used to. And just her entire world is upside down. So you're leaving everything and everyone you know, behind, which is very familiar to military connected families. But the twist is that you don't view the story, or the journey through the eyes of a child. And so it allows you to see it through a seven year olds perspective. There's highs and lows, and she's like, this stinks. But if they got pizza, maybe that's okay. Or I lost my my favorite thing. I'm not gonna tell you what, unless you read it. But if this happens, then that's okay, they got ice cream. That's okay. So you see her experience the highs and lows, just like us holding on the floor, and she's seeing herself. If I can reach one more marker, one more thing, you know, if I can find out about something else, then I'm okay with this. And so just having a bite sizable learning experience, through food through culture through, um, traveling through, you know, being in the hotel on base. And so it just allows a child to see that resilience is important. And more, you know, also that there's hope on the other side of a new environment.

Jen Amos 7:53

Yeah, well, I think that is beautiful. And I'm so glad that just like with you. I mean, I love how you're, you know, creating the thing that you wish you had growing up, I myself, you know, 20 years removed from the military have spent the last handful of years just unpacking what that was all about. I'm like, How is it that I'm kind of like on my third career in my adult life? How is it even when I was in college, I changed my major multiple times, like, how is it that I always feel like I feel this need to reinvent myself and have a diversity of friends. And it's like, oh, it's because as a military kid, that's what I had to do. I had to move every two to three years, I had to make new friends to the point where I eventually got jaded. And I was like, You know what, Whoever comes to me, like, I guess you're my friend, you know, like, just all of that. And unfortunately, I mean, you know, to the best of my parents ability, obviously, they kept me alive. And they kept a roof over my head, and they fed me and everything, but the ramifications of just that life. Like that was not discussed, you know, caused me to, like deal with it in a very interesting way later on in my adult life. So I love how, you know, you have taken your experience as a military kid to be able to put this in the book that could help military kids today.

Speaker 2 9:04

Yeah. So it's something that even resignate with people in our age groups like, oh, yeah, I wish we had this. It's like, yeah, that's, that was the purpose. We didn't have it. And so when you're in a room, and people start talking, and they're asking you, where are you from? You're just like, I cringe in my mind going. Even as a kid. It's like, okay, well, they're not gonna believe me, right? But my family's from here. And I was born there, and we live there. But we spent most of our life in Europe. They're like, who are you? So when we have these outlandish experiences, like going to the loop on a field trip, or playing sports in another country, just some really cool things that most people have not experienced? People wonder, Is that true? What is that a real thing? Like in the time we went to Sistine Chapel? Yeah, took some photos. You weren't supposed to take photos of timing. They broke some of these cameras, the whole story. And when you start to talk about this with your non military connected friends, people go is that real? And so the more you hear that, like you said, you get a little jaded and you realize My experiences are really different. So you start to try to make yourself smaller to fit in the world around you. But your third culture kid, you belong to a different group, you're just now realizing that sharing that diversity of thought and your experiences should be celebrated. So why not celebrate them? For me, my outlet was celebrate them in writing and in literature overall.

Jen Amos: 10:19

Yeah, I like that word that you've learned to celebrate how, you know, multicultural and multifaceted you are? And yeah, I think about even my own background, whenever people ask me, like, where are you from? I'm kind of like, Do you got some time like to hear like my life story? Because I've kind of been everywhere. It's version or the long version, right? Yeah. Or long. I mean, I've mainly lived in California. That's what I'll tell people. It's like, oh, I lived there for at least 20 years. But prior to that, I've been, you know, going back and forth from like Japan, to California to South Korea. You know, like all these things. When I was a kid Jennylyn, you recently had PCs with your family, and you have two little boys. So I'm not so little anymore. Obviously. They're like, they're pretty they're growing up. But I'm curious to know, like, what it's like for you to hear this conversation so far as Charmaine and I talk about our experiences as a military kid.

: 11:04

It's funny, like, I love listening to you guys share your experiences, because it helps me as a mom to put myself in my kids place. I'm doing this from the adult perspective. And I'm someone who lived in the same house, like my whole life. I mean, my parents moved to when I was in college, like, and that's the house they've been in since I was in college. So like, I lived in two houses, like my whole my whole life, like within 15 minutes of each other, right? Like, we never left the area. And so I can solidly say like I was born and raised in Virginia, my kids who are both born here in Virginia, like, it's where they tell people they're from, I think mostly because of their relationship with my parents, and like how close they are to our family. But I mean, they were two and three, when we moved the first time. And so now that we're back in Virginia, I mean, I preteens like, I have those that awesome tween age or age at my house, and like, we're back where they're from. And yet, we have daily conversations about how different it is here than it was in San Diego, or in Connecticut, where we were before that, and you know, because of their ages, like they have noticed the nuance and culture and the differences of things. And it's fascinating to see that from a kid perspective and like parent through those changes.

: 12:33

That you're seeing the differences in just one location to the next, the food is different, the people are different. And so and you see it with grace in the book, as well, as she has diverse friends, her classroom is diverse. It's celebrated, you know, we like in our community, we're celebrating, you know, Asian American Heritage Month and Spanish heritage month and Caribbean heritage much. And we're always learning from each other's parents and grandparents and saying they're different. But I like that she makes this one dish. And I've learned a few words into gala that I like. And so we start to get to know each other, from the way we celebrate, it just kind of attract to each other's cultures. But when you move away to a new location, you start to see, it's very different. And people are very much in their own cliques. You say, Well, where do I fit in? And so I think it's just important that you're having those conversations with your kid Jennylyn to see, you know, it's different. But we can find something that we can enjoy here. And I'm pretty sure there's a few kids just like you. But now I started to they have like we did something in school was almost like a sponsor for kids in school, where you became we not really a sponsor, but it was your job. At least it was my job to kind of befriend the new kid on their PCs and kind of show them around, let them sit at the lunch table with you. I guess I was cool. I don't know. And you get to, I mean, in my mind, right? And you're showing them around so they don't feel as lonely. And I think if we do more of that in different groups, not just for the spouse, because I know we have spouse sponsors. And I know we have sponsors for the service member. But if we start to do that with children, I think it will make their experience even better than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

: 14:05

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, my youngest is an elementary school. My oldest is in middle school. And it's interesting because the neighborhood we moved into, we've seem to have met all middle schoolers, like we can't find the elementary schoolers, my too early 18 months apart. So it's not a huge deal. But you know, my youngest son who's very social and very like participates in everything and you know, wants to befriend everybody even still had this twinge of like, but when I started school, everybody that I've hung out with all summer is going to the middle school, and I'm going to elementary school, like what do I do and I mean, we're in a very large we live in Hampton Roads were in a huge military area and so reassuring him that he is not the only one that's going to be brand new to the school and that there are probably other military kids in his class and but it was interesting because He's not typically my one that worries about that kind of stuff, because he's so social, but to see him try and figure that out before school started, and then, you know, question like, how different he was going to be than everyone else was, yeah, it was a new parenting experience that I hope I don't have to do again.

: 15:22

You will be more prepared for the next time like, we moved from, I think we moved maybe like eight to 10 times somewhere. We moved a lot. Like literally, that was my phrase like I Mobileye now, okay, you know, you just kind of like a mon from you kind of pull in, we moved to Turkey, and you're learning Turkish and then you move somewhere else. People like you speak. Why? Because like, oh, I speak Turkish. They're like, why? And so the main question you get asked is, do they eat turkey in Turkey? Just like, I think that's when we move back to the US after that. And I was just like, No, they don't eat turkey and Turkey. So you're gonna have this experience, again, what your kid's gonna be like, what you'd be better prepared with some fun jokes and resources. But you know, it never ended up with like, Bombay asked me if they can drive to Turkey. She was like, What did you tell them? To me? I was like, I was polite to say no, but in my mind, I'm like, Duh, you're gonna get that that cool kind of sarcasm, you just gonna try to tailor it to anyway?

: 16:23

Oh, they already have it. I mean, they're 10 and 12. So they're already well on their way to being like, what is happening and having a slightly sarcastic response.

Unknown Speaker: 16:34

It's a character trait.

Jen Amos: 16:37

Yeah, I feel like that's one thing. I can credit a lot of my humor and sarcasm and just kind of nonchalant attitude from just the, you know, just the the shiftiness of military life like you kind of just learn to take it with a sense of humor. And even once we got settled, it's like, I really, like it was really hard for me to like, mentally settle, like, once we move back to California, but yeah, you just learn to kind of take it in stride, and you learn to like, look at it in a funny way.

: 17:05

I don't think I've even settled though. My mind is still like cursors. Next, what are we doing next? Exactly. So I won't even stay in a job very long. Like, I'll try another company, let's do something different, right? Just this need to continue to grow and move and learn something different.

Jen Amos: 17:19

Yeah, no, that's real talk. Like, I don't know if you ever, like feel this way. But I always feel like I'm starting to anticipate a Plan B, or I'm starting to anticipate a transition to something else. Like I don't even think it's coming. But I like I don't know if it's actually coming. But I feel like it's coming. You know, and so I always think of like, what would happen, I start thinking what ifs, like what happened if, like, you know, I lose this, or I lose that or I have to move or you know, I mean, right now, like in my current life, I've been relocated a number of times and just number of months. But like, it's a very real thing that's happening to me right now. But even when we were like, quote, unquote, settled, it's kind of like, okay, how long am I going to be here? I think about when we moved back to California, I was in one elementary school and fifth grade. And then I went to another one in sixth grade. And then before I could, you know, get settled, we went to middle school, which is for two years, and then I went to high school. And then within two years, I moved to another high school, and this was even post military. Okay, so I felt like for a long time, I just couldn't find like that solid ground. And then that's why in college, I changed my major three times. And then in my 20s, I got fired from like four jobs, because I just I couldn't understand the concept of staying put somewhere. Like it was very unsettling for me. And so I think it's interesting to just reflect and share this with you out loud. And I love how you said like, oh, I might change careers again, I don't know. Like, this is what I'm doing right now. But I don't know if I'm gonna do it tomorrow. I feel like you get me I guess, in a sense, and and that's why I feel like I can share this because it's like, okay, I'm not the only one. And I'm not scatterbrained, I'm not like not being committal. It's just something that had been conditioned in me at a very young age.

: 18:50

Well, that's me. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Because you're like, Okay, I've conquered this one thing, something else is supposed to happen. Now, what is that? How do I prepare for that? Because something and I think that's something that we're taught, you need to be prepared for today. And what could come tomorrow, they're always unofficially preparing you. But if they're not around, you need to be in charge. This is where you could like, actually make groceries at seven in another language in a foreign country. You could actually do this, right? I don't know how you're this responsible. But you can. And as you're, you're an adult, you're like, Okay, well, what's next? What new skill? Can I pick up? Where am I moving to my next job? Like, how can I continue to have this mindset of growing and evolving, but for me, it's kind of changed a little bit into how can I teach others? What I know, how do I help them become more resilient because everything is temporary? Yeah, most people don't understand that. Every single thing is temporary around you. And you got to live for today, but prepare for not tomorrow, but like the year after, which is, you know, kind of crazy in itself. But I guess we're always prepared.

Jen Amos: 19:53

Yeah, it's like if you're always ready, you never have to prepare is how the saying goes

: 19:58

and what I heard and all of that. Is that I was destined to be a military spouse because I have two different degrees and two completely different things. I no longer work in a career of either of those degrees. Even though I, you know, like I said, I mean, in my until college, I only lived into houses that were within 15 minutes of Gosh, not even they were probably like three miles apart, you know, went to the same school, kindergarten to 12th grade went to college with half of my graduating class like, and yet I live this very transient very, like, always have to be prepared and ready for the next thing lifestyle now and I'm like, oh, huh, weird. I guess I was always kind of preparing to do this, even though I come from that, you know, very staples, not really the word I want to use. But like, sort of the word I want to use, like Foundation, like we did not approve, like, yeah, no, went to school in the church with the same people, you know, my entire life until I became a military spouse and moved away. And that was very, that was always very comforting. And very, you know, I think that's where a lot of my sense of community comes from is that I grew up in a place in this space that was always felt like home, and the people were in. So when I've had to create that wherever we've moved, that's the basis with which I go on, like, oh, I want it to feel like home and for these these people to feel like home. And so I draw on having lived the same place until I got married and moved away. Yeah,

Jen Amos: 21:28

and you know, what, also Jennylyn I think what I appreciate about your story, and kind of that range from, you know, being rooted for so long to being uprooted in the last, you know, almost 15 years now for you. And of course, with your kids is that even if you were supposedly built for it, you like got the help you needed to really, you know, lean into it, right? You know, unfortunately, you know, like breakups and divorce and all these things are very common in our community if you don't get help. And so I think, again, it's a testament to mental health, as we talked about, at the beginning of our conversation, and community, right mental health and community, I think is key to this. Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah.

: 22:08

That genuine, you've seen, you've seen like that continuum of change, things that are more steady every day to now, every day is a little bit different. So you have some strategies on how to handle these things, because you know, what both sides look like? And so having those resources is valuable. Yeah, yeah, I

: 22:25

think you know, as we kind of all process all of this change and stuff out loud, what I'm coming to is realizing like that is where I think I've really filled a gap for my boys is I'm the one that's always been here. And because I grew up with such a stable and rooted background, like, that's what I tried to provide for them, despite all of the change, just also sometimes really exhausting mental health real talk. That's still why that's why I'm still in therapy, like, because sometimes being that pillar of stability is exhausting. But it is something that I want my boys to feel like, you know, despite all of the outside changes in the uprooting and the constantly shifting cultural cues and things like, you know, they always feel safe and secure. Wherever we are together.

Jen Amos: 23:14

Yeah, you hold down the fort for them Jennylyn, your dinner stone, have your military family to remain, I was reflecting on what you were saying earlier about how you had this whole journey of growing and evolving and to the person you are today to now teaching. And I have to ask you, because you also mentioned this earlier in our conversation that as a military child, you kind of feel like in order to let's say, assimilate and your next location, you sort of have to shrink yourself and simplify, you know, answering questions of like, where you're from, and what have you that you can easily kind of minimize yourself in your story. And so I'm curious for you, like, when did you go from, I guess shrinking yourself to knowing like, you know what, I need to celebrate this, I need to stop doing that. And you stop shrinking myself, minimize myself simplifying myself in a way to celebrating this and teaching others to do the same.

: 23:59

So I think it happens just kind of naturally along the way, you know, just for good OpSec, right, you learn not to share as much. And so people ask you where you're from, you start to listen to what other people say. And you're like, oh, you know, from this, you know, from there, because you don't want to give the full story that could give details about your personal life. So I think that's probably part of the shrinking is you're not trying to share too much information. But then when you become an adult, like I went to Spelman College, fantastic College. Everybody apparently was at the top of their class when I went, so I was like, Oh, wait, it's not just me who's like really doing something like No, all 600 of us are fantastic. Wow. And so people start talking about where they're from, and there's only a few of us from another country will because wherever you were last is technically where some people think you're from, you start to realize, well, I am a little different, but how can I find ways to celebrate this? And so I just would try to implement a few stories in reports that I was sharing, or if I had to talk about like politics and women, how this could relate based off of my ex Barians living somewhere else where the rights of women were a little more restrictive, not that it was bad, it was just different. And so I started to evolve this idea of in, don't just kind of take it with a grain of salt. But every thing and every person based off of your perspective can be considered a hero, a tyrant, or a terrorist. Just depends on your perspective. Whatever it is, and so I start to like, create one concept and think of it in three different ways like, Okay, well, what narrative do I actually want to share with people? How much do I actually want to share when they say, Oh, you find me just like, oh, you know, we moved around, but I landed here in Georgia in and I just kind of leave it there. So I've learned what not to share, unless I'm with people like Danny Lynn, and Jen who get it. And I can say, Oh, well, I was actually born in San Diego. But then like, six weeks later, exactly, we shipped out, you know, and I could share a little bit more, because I know the space estate with like minded individual. So I think you just kind of start to get a feel for it. Using your intuition once you're an adult, but as a kid, you're like, Okay, well, what's everybody else? Sharing? I'm only going to share that.

Jen Amos: 26:05

Yeah, I think that's smart. That gets me to reflect on why I podcast today. And I think like my goal is if I can make people safe enough to open up about certain things, and I can open up, open up about certain things. And I think my approach is very similar to yours, where it's like, you hear what everyone else is saying you're like, Okay, well, based on the general consensus of this group, I'm going to present this part of myself to you. And I think that's clever. And like you said, it's probably a learned trait you had to pick up growing up.

: 26:34

Yeah, so it's like I was in a clubhouse room not too long ago. Currently, clubhouse is like thing now. And I get in there, and then you they play it to the status. And I was like, What's the hardest thing you've ever had to go through? And I'm thinking, I don't know, these 100 people in here. You know, your mind you like quick, what do you say? And I'm like, the rejection when you submit something to a publisher? And they say no. And I'm like, okay, that feels like a safe answer. And then, you know, then they divert to other people, and you realize they're talking about like the death of a loved one. And like mental health having a breakdown. I'm like, Oh, that was the wrong thing. You know. So like, you never really know what the safe space is when you have to go first. So I will wait. And I'm like, Okay, what are they sharing? Yeah, there one thing I can share this not too deep. That'll give away anything, but I can, you know, so it's like this teeter totter between what's safe to share what's not safe to share? And who's in the room? And I know Jenny, Lynn probably sees this because you have kids, you're like wondering, what do I share with them about my experience in all of this, and what can't I share? You know, what makes me real, but still seem like every kid wants to feel like their parent is a superhero, even though we're not, you still want to feel like to some degree, they see you as someone who's going to protect them, regardless of whatever feels like I know, you experience that, what do I share? What don't I share about my experience?

: 27:46

Yeah, it's interesting, as you were talking, I was thinking about the multiple situations I've been in where I'm the new adult on the block. And the last person you want to be is the one that drops the elevator first, like, you don't want to be the one that gives all the heavy information, have everyone stare at you open mouth, because you just shared something that was real in real hard, and they're like, Oh, my God, I don't know what to do with you and all of your story anymore. When I think about how I have, you know, definitely tiptoed into some of those situations and am grateful for the people I found that also had elevator drop stories, that I can be comfortable and share our whole, you know, experience with. And as a mom, yeah, that line with my kids. I mean, especially now we my husband's back on CDD for the first time in many years. And it even though he is worked jobs for the past several years that were high pace, long hours, you know, lots of working from home, even after he was off work, like, this is different. And my kids are older. And so trying to find that line of going, Look, I know this is hard for you. Also, it's hard for me because I do still want them to feel safe. And also know that like my well of giving is only so, so deep, and I'm also having trouble with like making new friends or figuring out where I fit or I mean, we Jen, I've had this conversation a couple times, but I mean, I moved home like quote unquote, I moved back to the area I grew up in now I don't live in the same town and we're not going to like the same church. My kids don't go to the same school I went to but like, I do have people within the surrounding area that I've known my whole life. But there was a stretch this summer where like, I was working. I mean, that was I still do work full time. And I work weird hours because I work for a West Coast company. And I wasn't seeing anyone unless I was seeing them on Zoom and just felt like so isolated and trying to help my kids Kids navigate feeling isolated and alone when I was feeling very isolated and alone was the hard parenting moment. And you know, I mean, in that moment, I told them that I was also feeling that way too because I it made them feel less alone. And I don't think it freaked them out that I told them. The jury's still add on that I guess,

: 30:20

humanizes you. And in the book, I have this as well, where the family is getting on that long flight across the water. And the kid leans over and like, I'm scared to the mom, and the mom says, I'm scared too. But the army needs us to be strong. So I like the acknowledging a parent thing. I don't know what's going to happen either. And I feel like you do, but we're together. And then the mom holds their hand or gives them a piece of bubblegum. And it's just, it's realistic. Because you don't know what's going to happen you're scared to. And they asked you last thing you want to do is invalidate their feelings by saying, Oh, no, it's fine. Like, no, I feel this way too. But we're together and long as we're together that's home. And so that's a concept, my mom always kind of pushed with us, she was always pretty honest as well, like, Hey, I'm experiencing this to my career is constantly changing. I'm in this with you guys. But as long as we have each other, we're home that is home wherever family is. And so that's what you would consider because everything else is temporary. And for me, a little piece of my heart really stayed in every station across the world, like a little piece of me as in Turkey and a little piece of music in Italy, and in Germany, in England, and Oklahoma in some of the other places that we were in for short periods of time. Because like you said, when you go back, you have those memories, but you realize you're not the same person that you were before. That person was really different. They were special, but I'm never going to be her again. So it's a little sad, but it's fighting at the same time.

Jen Amos: 31:51

Yeah, I hear what you mean. It's like the constant shedding of old skin. You know, when I think of reptiles, and it's like, yeah, I'm processing like everything you're saying. But essentially, in hearing you talk, I feel like you're kind of talking to my younger self, you know, saying that it was gonna be okay. When I have these conversations, I am often reminded of, like, literally how I had to be the adult ally, you know, to go back in time and tell little Jennifer, you know, like, you're going to be okay, like, just keep writing in your journal, we're gonna address like what you're going through, like later. But like in that moment, being a military child, at least with my upbringing. You're just going through the motions. And I guess in a way, I'm grateful to be where I'm at today to have these conversations because I think about my own friends and Tremaine. I'm curious if you had these types of friends growing up where they didn't do too well with the military life, I had some friends who ended up becoming bullies. And some of them even ended up going to jail because I escalated into worse things. And it was just really difficult. Like some kids really have a hard time, you know, going through this and so in hearing you talk and it gets me to reflect on my experience and and think like, wow, you know, despite how challenging it was, I think I turned out okay.

: 33:03

Oh, yeah, we turned out great. Gentlemen, your kids will turn out great. Okay. You bet like you know, but there are a few people that they so crave wanting to be a part of a community Yeah, even though we're different but we're still our own community called Third Culture kids I don't know why but you know, it's a whole thing is transient lifestyle. Some people I do have some friends like that, Jim that yeah, they went down the wrong path and got connected with the wrong people. And are they still good people at heart? Yes, but they made some bad choices like anyone can and their choices have landed them behind bars right or worse, but for the majority we found ways to support each other but remember all of the mental health programs that are available now do the military was not there before right? It was just oh you move you guys would be all right in a few months. And like nobody was really checking in for a child's mental health a middle schoolers mental health it was just a baby. Fine. That makes them friend. Yeah. dyeing their hair black and everybody's emo in middle school. She's fine. Yes, yeah. Middle School, everyone

Jen Amos: 34:05

was a color for all my friends. Like, it was so weird. Like, I had friends. Like, there was one day where I guess there was like this red hair spray that was being handed around on campus. Like everyone had red hair. I was like, What is going on? I like

: 34:20

kind of allowing them to space and that's why I think it's important like books like this conversations like this, where we're saying, you know, we're validating your feelings thoughts and experiences because you are serving as well like it's not always like that as the child is serving it's the spouse is serving, you know, the service member serving and all these are just some brats IVRS like no, they're really serving in every bit of their world is changed. Like changes constitutes a whole world when all the time for kids and but they don't have the freedom to share the way they want to share. They can't just break something because they're fresher like whoa, I can just throw a vase if I felt like it. And I'm frustrated people are gonna get it as an adult remain can do that. But if a kid does it like oh, you You're in trouble. But it's like, well, they don't know how to express their frustration. And so I feel like a book like this and NPR and, you know, some of the other like stars and stripes. Other magazines have said, this is a great book as a conversation tool. Yeah, for parents to say, hey, let's, let's take a look at this and say, This is how you're feeling, let's talk about it. How do you really feel we're moving, and just really honored their moments. It's not going to make it better, but at least they'll feel heard and seen. And to me, that's all anybody ever wants, is to feel heard and seen.

Jen Amos: 35:31

Yeah, real talk, I think that's the biggest thing I struggled with, you know, growing up, like, after a while, especially when we came back to civilian life. And it seemed like life was already moving on. And people, you know, like people who were born and raised and lived in, you know, Southern California, I felt like I aged, you know, like, I was like, 10 years old. And I felt old, like, in a way, but I also felt indifferent and jaded. And I think that if only, you know, my parents, and again, I'm trying to say this in a way where I still honor my parents, because I know that they did their best if they had any more capacity, you know, to validate my feelings and to validate what I was going through, and the things I was saying at that time, I think I would have been, you know, better mentally, I would have been in a better path. But, you know, it really took till later in life to unpack what I went through, and learn to, I guess, self soothe and comfort myself and say, like everything you went through, like, it's okay, you made it out alive and proud of you, you know. So I love that, you know, you have your book to now be one of many tools and resources for military families to have these conversations with their kids. I'm curious if you have had any feedback from families, or maybe a favorite testimonial of yours, that really, you know, shows your book being that conversation tool for military families. Yeah.

: 36:49

So I get a lot of like notes in the mail. And people tag me in line, which is super cool. I love it. I'm like, oh my god, kids like favorite. I love that. But some of the best testimonials to stand out to me. One was a mom, she's three kids. And she messaged me on Instagram was like, you know, my eight year old, the sharp eight year old said that it made him feel heard and seen. And I, you know, I cried a little bit, I was excited. Because he had moved so much in his little eight years. The younger siblings didn't really understand that it like three and five, but the eight year old had a concept of I'm losing my friends every time I move. And when the mom said that I said, Okay, this is good. I asked her, I said, Can I send him a coloring book cuz they're getting ready to move again, right? It's like their fifth move. I don't know what the service members job is. But that happens sometimes. And I see I just wanted to send him some stickers and a coloring book as well, just to make it a little bit smoother, but she has some deep conversations. And it felt right to say okay, this is a real tool, not just okay by Charmaine book because, you know, she wants you to buy it. Oh, yeah. The other one came from a friend that I actually went to school with in third grade. This was, yeah, this in. So oddly enough, in fourth grade to being two different schools on two different sides of the same base is interesting. But we were on one side of the base before we moved to Italy. Yeah, I remember, she purchased the book, she drove three hours to buy a book. Wow. And it was nice to see her I hadn't seen her many years. But you know, you're once your friends are always friend, she bought the book for her kids, her husband's a Marine. And they have quite a bit of travel where he's by himself, or they have to move. And her kid use it for character day. You know, it's a big day in school. So he made a, he made his own version of the character on a popsicle stick, and he put the character and his stuffed animal back together. So he did a spin off of my story, if he's going to teach his class about himself through axle, which is the boys character of the same book. And while he's like, he's going to teach him that about his type of people in the military. He called him, we're different, but we're cool. And he wanted to talk about it. And I said, okay, so it gave him the words where you and I would have just heard everybody else say something and went with that. He felt empowered to share a little more of his story. And I was like, Okay, this is this is it. I was like, I didn't have that moment. But I love that it prepared him for a moment to talk about his own story. Yeah, I

Jen Amos: 39:13

mean, I think that the greatest educational tool out there is stories or storytelling, right. And so it's so great that you were able to have your book be a model for he took that as a model for him to explain his crazy life.

: 39:27

Oh, I had a lot of thoughts and a few tears too. No, no one shocked by that. Podcast? No, I mean, coming from a teaching background and being a parent of military children. I just I love that they see themselves in the story, and that it helps explain I mean, one of the other things in addition to mental health and community that Jen and I often talk about on here is like is the gap between military community and civilian community and how as I as a military spouse, like really live in both worlds. I mean, technically, I'm a civilian. Also, I have a military ID. And you know, I spend a lot of time in my personal and professional life really trying to bridge that gap. And so to think that, like, this story, helps kids print the gap in their own lives, like just made me very happy.

: 40:23

I, that's all I ever wanted for somebody else to see it and say, That's me. That makes sense. And somebody else's kid was like, Oxo looks like me, that's the boy's character. Is that my kid? Sure. You think it looks like you think if you think it looks like it should gray I wanted to make each character I cultural, sure, biracial if you want them at whatever it is. And so like you said, if they can see themselves in it and find it valuable, that's all I could ever want. You know why the experience is hard enough in itself, if you had something to make it easy?

: 40:55

Well, I'm just gonna put like a PSA out there. For all the elementary school teachers. I taught first grade in California for a couple of years. And, you know, Month of the Military Child is in April. And one of the things that I think was one of the best things I was able to do from a teaching standpoint, during month military child is I mean, we were in a school where a quarter of the population was military. And so I mean, basically, every class 25% of your class is military. And so we were fortunate that we had a lot of support through like the military, family, life counselors and things like that. And also, what I learned in as a parent, I was grateful for that support, my own kids went to the M flag, they have a great experience with her, they got to hang out with other kids and you know, to play therapy type things around being a military kid. What I learned on the teacher side of that is I had been 75% of my class. Now mind you, we're talking first grade to sixth and seven, not a lot of world experience or worldview. But the other 75% of my class was super confused. And honestly a little jealous of the 25% of my kids that got pulled by the M flat, who got to go do this thing. And they wanted to know how come these kids got to go do this thing. And they didn't what made them so special. And it was this other this thing that was used to other and so for a month, a military child, I brought in all of the military books that we own winter Mini, and read a few to the 75% of my class, while the other 25 are being pulled by the M flag to go, Hey, here's like, you know, here's what's going on. Like, here's the reason they go to this, and I would read a book about like, what it's like to be a service family, and then talk about it. And then then when my kids who saw the implant came back, like we had a discussion, and I let those military kids like, share, like, oh, yeah, that I mean, that is my experience. That is what I'm going through. And we you know, we had a really good, like, class, chat about it. And so every couple of days, I would read a different a different book. And we would talk about it. And I mean, it sounds like this one would be a great Month of the Military Child book like to help talk about that experience. Sorry, just I love that.

: 43:21

Yeah, just bridging the gap because other people go what? Your dad kills people like, no, no, some do. But no. Just like I say that, you know, it would feel some of the questions that kids have added curiosity, and make it easier for another kid to answer. So like you're saying it's a great book to build community and just kind of empathy for the experience in April. And then Oh, yeah. President Biden just announced that November is now National Military Family Appreciation Month. And it just made me all excited. I was like, Oh, look at us with the National. You know, while

Jen Amos: 43:56

I didn't know that, I mean, Jennylyn often updates me on all the holidays that go on in military community. But that is amazing. That's great news. And we happen to be recording this during during this month. So that is awesome.

: 44:08

I mean, we got Danny wanna cry too, like this is it, man? My cup today?

: 44:13

You got the whole gamut today. Oh, Gammon.

Jen Amos: 44:17

Yeah. So Charmaine, I really love how, again, your book can be used as a conversation tool for military families to speak to their kids, and also for our civilian counterparts to understand what it's like to, you know, be raised in this life. And so I was reading a little bit about how, you know, you've been basically all over the world from, you know, Asia to the West Indies to Europe and the Middle East. And I'm sure there's other places there that I haven't listed. Now that you are an adult and a parent, from what I gathered in our conversation. I'm curious how you have been able to create community for yourself today. And what can you share with our listeners about community for

: 44:59

creating a Community and I'm kind of a creature of habit to some degree, I have some friends in a community that are more adventurous. You know, and then you have, you know, because I like my, my hiking, my indoor skydiving was blinding, things like that I have friends that I can build community around with that. And then others that are more based off of like cultural, main things like they're famous and turned out to or from the islands as well. And so we connect in that area, then there are my military connected friends that since day one, if I call, they're coming, I haven't seen you in 20 years. But if you need them, they're driving, right, they'll find a way to get to you. So I feel like the community is just honoring the diverse areas of who I am. So I have people in different pockets. And of course, if nothing else, just always keeping family as close as possible as you can. But the word community is just like I just as I pick people up and they become a friend, they become a friend forever. Oh, yes. Years go by and your kids will do this as well, Jenny Lynn, they'll be like, oh, yeah, that was my real friend from third grade, what? You know, they want shared Hot Cheetos or something together. And that became that was the story that tied them. And 20 years later, they will still be friends and laugh and joke about the same thing every time they see each other. But that's a community. I think anything that ties me to a great memory, good or bad that I've had just kind of becomes part of my community.

Jen Amos: 46:21

Yeah, I appreciate that answer. And your existence. And our conversation today continues to affirm how my life has turned out. And just like with you, my community is quite multifaceted. You know, I like you like just like you I have, you know, let's say for example, I have I'm part of the podcasting community, you know, and then I'm part of the military community. And then, you know, with my heritage, I'm part of the Filipino community, you know, and now I just need like a fitness community, because

Unknown Speaker: 46:51

Can We Be your own? My group? I need that too.

Jen Amos: 46:54

Yeah, I have been working. I've been trying to figure that out as things, things are opening up. Although one thing for me one thing, just a tip for everyone, because I'm one thing I've been working on. This is not even, like relevant, but maybe some people appreciate this. I was talking to my therapist about like, oh, I want to get into like, you know, food and fitness again, and take making healthy habits. And one of my therapists like my not one, my therapist asked me she's like, well, so then let's start by asking you like, when was the last time you had a healthy mindset about taking care of your health and fitness? And I was like, never. I've never, I have always body shaved myself. And I'm like, I've always like gone from zero to 100. And then I go back to zero. Like, I feel like I've never had a sustainable thing. So anyway, just in case anyone's wondering if you're looking to get started somewhere, you got to start with a mindset. So I've been like reading books and getting meditation apps is a whole conversation for another time. But I feel like that's sort of what's happening right now kind of go in that direction. But yes, if I could find a community that values fitness, I think I might be in a better position with that. But I love that I really all this is to say is that, you know, we are especially when it comes to the military community, we're multifaceted by nature. And therefore, you know, when we say community, it's not just the military community. It could be other aspects, just like what you share Tremaine what I shared and genuine, I imagine that you have you know, can be different communities that you're a part of as well outside of the military.

: 48:18

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think that's one of the things for me, that is a must. I can't be so singular and focus that I only belong to military spouse community, like, no, I need to be in a neighborhood. And there are just so many other places that fill my bucket that if I simply hung with only other military families, like I myself would not be as well rounded, neither would my children and I would never have a different worldview. And so for me, anywhere we've been I've always had multiple touch points of community, whether it be church or, you know, when my kids were little as mothers of preschoolers. It's been a 12 step program. It's been neighborhood, you know, all of those places, and also military spouses. Yes. Oh,

Jen Amos: 49:07

wow. What a great conversation. I feel really good about this. Sure, man, is there anything else you want to share? Any other final thoughts you want to share with our listeners today?

: 49:16

Yeah, I just want to add that diversity should be celebrated. And it's not just racial. It's not just gender, or even generations. It's about diversity of thought, having someone of a different background and celebrating it and saying, You know what, let me learn from you. And I think the world just needs more of that celebration of diversity and everything. So people feel free to talk and share their experience without saying, oh, oh, you're different. It's like, okay, well, you're different. But tell me something about you. Like let me learn more about your culture, your food, your heritage, and having a true curiosity for others. I feel like that is going to help us especially in the time period when we're, we're so separated just from the nature of the world event.

Jen Amos: 49:59

Yeah. No real, real talk. I love everything you said. And I think that's part of why I had really run hard with podcasting, especially during the pandemic, because it seemed like every other media outlet was all about division. And you know, yeah, all division, divisive rhetoric, etc, etc. And podcasting had given me the opportunity to fight against that by having conversations to find common ground and, you know, community. So I'm really grateful to have been in the space and obviously to have genuine with me to do this. Because I know this is one of the highlights of your, of your day. And I'm glad that you do this with me.

: 50:35

It is it is I mean, that was that reminded me of that saying, like, if you're the smartest person in the room, you need a new room, like, Yes. Which, which I love and constantly remind my boys of, because they're in that very, like, teenager, like, I am the smartest person in the room, and I should be and I'm like, but no, like, you need new room. Like, we're always we're always learning from other people. Like that's, that's how we get better as human beings and also serve the community around us. And of course, I get the this side, I had 12 year old look, but you know, if I keep saying and maybe

Jen Amos: 51:09

it'll, it'll ring, it'll echo later in life and be like, Oh, that's what mom meant. You know?

: 51:13

When can hope? Yeah, it will. Yeah, for sure. I

Jen Amos: 51:16

feel like I can reflect a lot of my childhood. And I was like, oh, that's why my mom did what she did. Like, she wasn't trying to, you know, A, B and C me like, she just, wow, she really loved me, right? Anyway, gotta give kids a couple years for that. But with that being said, Jermaine, thank you so much for being a part of our conversation today. I really enjoyed it. You're, like I said, earlier existence is validating. And I don't know, maybe you'll agree with me. But I think that military kids can be the most empathetic people out there. Just because from the very early stage of our life, we had to be we had to adapt, we had to assimilate, we had to adjust. And you know, I just think that is a skill set that a lot of us have, and I sense that with you, and also with the work that you've been able to produce. So thank you for your existence and for taking your childhood and turning it into the work you do today. And to be a part of our conversation today.

: 52:12

Thank you for inviting me, I have so many more stories that I'm writing. And then I'll be sharing just some great moments, like you said, over the childhood things that have occurred, and you put some, some things that you know, other stuff in there to keep the fluff. But something my mom was saying, and I know we all shared a mom story. She's always told me something that just rings in my head. And it makes sense. Now she would say the things that make us different make us special. You know, because when you wonder, Oh, my hair is big, and it's currently and it's this, and it's that you know, all these things that you complain about as a kid, why us why me? You know, someday you'll love this, because this is a really big difference, but it will make you special. And so I think we're in that frame of the world now where it's coming back full circle, where people like Jen and Jenny Lynn will talk to their kids and community members and say, Yeah, this was so different. But we show you how my experience really validated the next generation with what I'm doing, especially podcasting and writing for you genuine. Yes,

Unknown Speaker: 53:04

absolutely.

Jen Amos: 53:05

Well Shareen let our listeners know or remind our listeners how they can get a hold of you if they want to reach out and check out your books.

: 53:11

Well, they can always just fly to Atlanta of joking. You are able to reach me on books for military families.com on merit has links to my social media as well. But please, please, please reach out I would love to do a virtual visit with your school I would love to partner for a giveaway, or more importantly, just to make your child feel heard and seen by gifting them a book so please let me know how I can support

Jen Amos: 53:38

you. Awesome. Well, Charmaine, thank you again, so much for being with us. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today. And then Jennylyn thank you for CO hosting with me. Just bring you back in your Jalen, thank you for CO hosting with me as always. Absolutely. Happy to be here. Yes. And to our listeners. Thank you all so much for listening. We hope you got a lot out of this conversation. And we'll chat with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.