142: "You don’t really see the mental health issues our servicemembers are facing until it hits close to home." Mental health advocacy with Grant Khanbalinov

Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hey everyone. Welcome back. Jen amo is here. And as always, I have my co host with me genuine strip Jennylyn Welcome back. Hey, glad

Unknown Speaker 0:07

to be here today.

Jen Amos 0:09

Yes, it's been fun because we're actually doing interviews again.

Speaker 1 0:12

I know again, feels like it's been a year since we've done this.

Jen Amos 0:16

Yeah, for sure. We've been spending a lot of time during pre interviews. And it's funny because I feel like I'm repeating the same thing I said in the last episode that just came out because I was just talking about this in the last episode. But I think it's worth mentioning just for our listeners to know that there's so much planning that goes on in order for the show to be consistent. So y'all are welcome. Anyway, with that being said, we are really excited as we always are, because we get to have another incredible guest in our community. So let me go ahead and introduce you all to grant Khan, who is a veteran and a mental health advocate. We've been talking like I said, the pre interview and even a little bit before genuine popped on here to you know, chat about some things. So without further ado, Grant, welcome to hold down the fort podcast.

Unknown Speaker 0:57

Awesome. Yeah. Thank you for having me on

Jen Amos 0:59

here. Yeah, for sure. So I know that you know, Matthew gentleman's husband in case our listeners don't know, by now, I'm curious to know how you guys know each other.

Speaker 2 1:08

You know, honestly, just in passing in over social media, we've never really met face to face, but we just connected at some point when I was at, I want to say Navy Recruiting Command. And from there, we just stayed in contact with each other.

Jen Amos 1:23

Yeah, I love how like transient our military community is. And yet, you know, even if you just kind of know each other online, or in passing, they're sort of this fundamental like, yeah, like, you know, I'm here for you, like, if you need me, or I think you're awesome, you know, like, just this general respect, even for someone that you haven't really spent a lot of time in person. So obviously, I know that Matthew is a great person. And so I think by extension, you must be a great person to to be on the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:48

I hope so.

Jen Amos 1:51

Yeah. Genuine, curious if you had any opening thoughts. Did you know, Grant, you know, before? Yeah, did you know grant?

Speaker 1 1:58

I mean, the first time I met, quote, unquote, met Grant was when we did our pre interview with him. You know, like, Matthew, I think, Matthew, so I'm on LinkedIn, you know, some social and was like, hey, you know, you guys should have on the podcast chief grant, like he does a lot of work in mental health and like, helps people out and you know, you guys like mental health and community. And so I reached out to grant via social media. And here we are,

Jen Amos 2:24

the power of social media. I feel like social media is sort of like a double edged sword sometimes, but when it works in your favor, it works in your favor. Yeah, for sure. Well, great. You are a civilian. Now you're a veteran. And one of the main topics we're going to get into today is mental health. But I do want to start with your service, a little background on your service and sort of what compelled you to advocate for mental health. So let's start there. Your time in the service to you know, kind of what sparked that inspiration for you to advocate for mental health?

Speaker 2 2:55

And I went to go seek help in: 2012

Jen Amos 5:19

Well, that's pretty wild and very risky of you. As you said, I am curious to know, Grant, first and foremost, because you were asking this question of what is that? What is stopping other service members from actually seeking out mental health? I want to know from your end, when did you know that you had mental health issues? And more importantly, when did you kind of know, after that? How did you know you needed to get help? Because I think that's where it starts is like the self awareness that you're going through something? And also the desire to actually seek out help for it?

Speaker 2 5:50

h, I started seeing it around: 2012

Jen Amos 6:49

yeah, for the girlfriend slash now. Wife. Yeah, yeah. She's your wife for a reason.

Speaker 1 6:55

I think that's a great synopsis of how kind of military mental health like gets as far down the road, as it does is a you know, in my own experience as military spouse, who was also the sounding the alarm of like, hey, something's happening. You know, it's very much the same, as long as he stayed busy. Everything was okay. And it was the moment that we slowed down as a family or work slowed down that it was like, oh, something's going on here. And I think, especially career military folks, are chronically busy men. So it's kind of hard to know what's going on, if you're always so busy, that you never have the time to go, hey, something's not right. Like you just get in the cycle of busy and busier, I mean, that that was very true for our family. And then it's, Hey, if you have a moment of downtime, you know, the other thing I've found, if you have that moment of downtime, it's well, do I really want to go spend it with a therapist? And it's usually the answers like, no, I'd rather go to the beach, or I'd rather go, you know, do something with the family. And unfortunately, that cycle also starts to play out in the families where, you know, because somebody isn't getting well, like, then those down moments aren't all that fun. You know, and aren't all that healthy for anyone. And so, you know, I think that was a great description of why one of the many reasons of why it's difficult, it's not the right word, but you know, why people don't seek services, the minute they feel like, something might be off here.

Jen Amos 8:32

Yeah. And grant, I just want to take a minute to commend you for trusting your, you know, your wife, girlfriend at the time, because I think in your position, you could easily just said, I don't have a problem, I'm fine. Or you just avoid it altogether. You know, like Jacqueline said, like, find other ways to fill in that downtime, other than dealing with your mental health. So, you know, I think this is I think the first lesson of really our conversation today is trust your spouse, they can tell if something has changed. Hmm, absolutely. Before I move ahead and talk about a little bit about Reddit, I'm curious if there's any other closing thoughts you wanted to share? Grant?

Speaker 2 9:06

No, I mean, before I say went upstairs, just because medical is right above my shop. Before went upstairs, I wanted spoke to leadership. And that was probably one of the most difficult things that I had to do. Because, in my mind, the biggest barrier and the biggest barrier for a lot of service members is telling leadership that they want to go seek help, because they're worried about the repercussions are worried about, you know, am I going to lose my career? Are they going to talk bad about me? Are they going to make fun of me or, you know, there's a lot of unknown so there's a big stigma around it. Is there a leadership that will do that? Absolutely. You know, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. There will be leadership out there that are going to do everything that I just said. But there's also leadership out there, that'll be like, okay, yeah, go for it, and they'll completely support Are you 100% of the way? And that's luckily how mine reacted? Were there people whispering and talking about the mistakes? Yes. Were there people talking crap while I was on the watch, you know, in the engine room? Yes. But you know, it's one of those things to where you have to put yourself before you put the Navy in the entire time that we're racing, the Navy has always ship shipmates self. But when it comes to like your health and your mental health, it shouldn't be like that it should be yourself than your shipmate than your ship.

Jen Amos: 10:34

Yeah, I like how you said that, like, you know ship, shipmates, and then self, and the fact that it's been ingrained to put yourself last, by the way, where's family in that? Yeah. So again, I just want to say kudos, you've been in the military, it's all about kind of being selfless, essentially, and thinking about anyone else, but yourself. But you took that moment to take the sign from your girlfriend at the time to, like, actually look into your mental health. And so that being said, let's talk about the huge risk you took on Reddit. And let's talk about like the pause, like, you know, what was that process for you to share on there the reaction you got? And of course, the consequence?

: 11:11

Yeah, so yeah, I was on travel, I was in Pensacola. And, you know, I want to read it in my uniform. And I was like, Hey, my name is Chief. So and so this is my story. This is how I got help. And guys, you know, if anyone is struggling, or if anyone knows someone who's struggling, please feel free to reach out and I put my phone number out there. I had no idea how Reddit worked. No idea. I just knew that there was this, you know, group called RNAV. And I'm like, I think this would be the perfect place for it. And I was met with about 85% positivity, and about 15% of people just like bashing me in the comments. People going after the chief Smash, just like stuff that has nothing to do with it. Just go out and say something negative. And the reason that I chose Reddit is because of that anonymous wall that it lives, you know, it lives on, people just go and completely speak freely on there without the threat of any repercussions or being tracked down or anything like that. And that's what I wanted. I wanted the raw kind of unfiltered commentary. So I did it. And I would say maybe about a day later, I got an email from RPA to, and it's like, hey, let's have a conversation when you get back to Millington. So I got back to Millington. And she was like, never do that. Again, without our permission. We should have bettered the video, we should have done this. We should have done that. It has to be sent up. There's a lot of eyes on this video. You know, they're like, it's it's all the way up in DC at this point, which I'm like, Whoa, okay, that's fine. Later on, once I worked in DC, I was like, Oh, well, that's not really

Jen Amos: 12:52

scare you. And, oh, it's all the way up in DC now. Like, look what you've done.

: 12:57

Yeah. It's just that's someone's desk. So that's kind of how the reaction went.

Jen Amos: 13:01

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I mean, it's very, very interesting how they like kind of nitpicked at the video. And even though actually, I'm kind of curious to know, and maybe it's because you shared your phone number, but how did they know that it was you on Reddit? Like, how do they even find the content? They just have a way.

: 13:18

Yeah, just word spreads very fast. And there's may be times is all over the Reddit group. And there's a bunch of reporters on there NPA O's on there. Wow, there's a lot of officers on there. So I definitely wasn't, you know, the only one.

Jen Amos: 13:37

Is there an article on this? I'm curious. I'm like, can I add it to the show notes? No, I'm kidding. Kidding. Not kidding. The mimics

Unknown Speaker: 13:45

abstain from this on the PA Oh, friends.

Jen Amos: 13:51

Bad things? Wow, well, first foremost, again, I have to commend you for taking that risk. I'm curious. So they basically told you, like don't do that again. And what came after that? Because I know that eventually, you have been med boarded and had an unexpected early transition. So between that time of saying, Hey, don't do that ever again, to you know, being med boarded. Like what what happened within that timeframe?

: 14:25

Yeah, so during that timeframe, I transferred out of Millington and I came over to chin FFO. And during that entire time, I want to say just about two and a half years, I began to speak to a lot of service members on Reddit and not just in the Navy but Air Force, Marines army Coast Guard, every single branch out there, both active duty and reserves and kind of just became that sounding board for mental health. And it got to a point to where I couldn't really do everything by myself. I needed more resources. So myself, a few veterans, a few active duty service members, we all kind of came together and remade this group, to where our job was going to be to listen on social media to watch on social media, for service members, or veterans talking about suicide, or flagging posts for us like flagging goodbye posts or anything like that. And kind of also advocating as well. And as soon as we would find someone, we would begin to dive into our networks and the resources that we had to locate this service member. There have been, you know, very, I don't want to say easy ones, but very kind of like simple ones, to where we would reach out and be like, Hey, what's going on, and they say, Oh, we're, you know, I'm just having a bad day. And we would give them resources. And that was that they'd be like, Thank you, we're gonna look into it. And there are other ones to where we would get local law enforcement involved. And they stopped someone on the Coronado Bridge about the jump, oh, my gosh, or someone calls me a few days before Valentine's Day, and says, you know, I'm about to shoot myself, and I want you to be the last person that I speak to. And I could hear them loading their weapon and racking their weapon. So you're talking to me on the phone? So, you know, it was a very while two and a half years?

: 16:21

Oh, my gosh, yeah. It was your face, like everyone's eyes got really big, as Grant said that no one can see that on the podcast, or that that's a lot.

: 16:31

Yeah, but this group was, I mean, amazing. They were all over the world. And whenever one of us would send a message, we would immediately jump on and start communicating, start going into resources doesn't matter if it's two o'clock in the morning, or, you know, eight o'clock at night. They're always on.

Jen Amos: 16:49

Wow, I just love how you all were such evangelists, you know, to really seek out these service members who may have hinted at suicidal ideation. And really, like you said, pulling together your resources to try to connect with them, and let them know that they're not alone and share some resources. I'm curious to know, because I think it's always good to know, like, the top resources that have been most useful. What are some resources that you have found to be a really good reference in sharing with with these service members?

: 17:20

Yeah, so and this one I'm actually really surprised with because I was about to get fired from my job info job. And they're like, Hey, you're gonna go meet with another Admiral. And, you know, we'll see if he wants to take you on. And I sat down with this Admiral. And he asked me that same question. He was like, what's the one resource that you point people to? And I said, Well, I point people to Military OneSource. He was like, what's that? Wow. And wow, yeah. And when someone of that rank that has been in the Navy, probably longer than I have been alive, says, what's that to one of the top mental health resources? It just showed me the entire, like, if he doesn't know, then other leaders don't know and other leaders don't know, then Junior service members don't know. So the main one that I used to point to is Military OneSource. Just because it's, you know, you don't need a referral for it's free, they'll keep your chain of command out of it. But now, just recently, have you heard of doctors on demand. So doctors on demand and Humana or TRICARE started working together. And they're good for, you know, urgent care visits at home, but they're also good for mental health visits. So now you can literally start a mental health counseling session from the comfort of your home. And you don't have to wait the three to six months that you would wait, you know, on base or off base, the process would be you go to your primary care, you tell them that you need a referral. And then once they put that referral in, you just really download the app. So if I was to put it in kind of like, a timeline of obviously, First, go to the emergency room, if you're really to that point to where, you know, you might hurt yourself or others, if not doctors on demand. And then if not doctors on demand, then Military OneSource.

Jen Amos: 19:16

Gentleman and I are taking notes.

: 19:19

This will be another one out there that's available as of July 6 teen so this will probably come out after that the new suicide hotline number is 988. So instead of having to dial the whole, you know, 100 digit number, you can now dial 988 and be connected with a suicide prevention specialist.

Unknown Speaker: 19:39

Yeah, absolutely.

Jen Amos: 19:41

I'm really happy to hear that. I really appreciate you sharing that grant. You know, one thing I really enjoy about the show is learning about all these resources. And you know, actually, it's thanks to the show and the guests where I become familiar with Military OneSource. And coming from a civilian perspective. Now, it's actually kind of wild to know that active duty servicemembers, people who've been in service for a long time, are completely unaware of these resources. So it really just affirms what Jenny Lynn and I are doing on the show to bring, you know, these resources to light. And also just the daunting task that you and your colleagues did to really get these resources out there. So I do want to take this time to really just thank you for taking the time to share all this in detail. I know that your services well behind you, but to really get into the whole story of you know, your military experience having been for 13 years. I mean, I imagine that you were probably going to go career at that point. Hadn't you been med boarded and kicked out essentially. So you know, for you to kind of relive these memories and share it with us today? I don't take that for granted. So grant, I just heard that's funny. I don't take that for granted. So thank you mainly to, you know, taking the time to share your story and to share these resources. Yeah, of course. Thank you. So let's go ahead and fast forward to life today, Grant, because I know that when we were talking offline, you love being out. You love being a civilian now. So tell us about, you know, kind of this new breath of life that you have as a veteran.

: 21:09

Yeah, I mean, when I was told that I was being met, boarded, I was terrified. And I didn't know how to react. And I didn't know how I'd be a civilian because, you know, I joined the Navy at 17 years old. Before that I was a waiter, I never had a real job before the Navy. And everyone told me like, Hey, before you get out, take a break, take about a month break to find yourself to learn who you are, you're gonna be a brand new person, you're gonna get your life back. Like, I don't have to do that, like I have bills. All right, I need to go into a job. So I started working at an advertising agency. And things just started coming up that I wasn't happy with. And four months later, I quit. And I took that kind of like month break that I needed, and rolled into a job after that, and it's just been amazing. Since then, you know, I've had so much like free time to be able to spend with my kids and to really, like grow as a family. It's like, I wouldn't trade it for the world. Honestly.

Jen Amos: 22:15

I'm really happy to hear in a way your current happily ever after, where it's like you have this fear of like, okay, what is post military life going to look like? Like, all I know, it my first job or my my first career was being in the military? And I'm kind of curious if because you met you know, you mentioned that you had to jump into another job, you know, you had to like pay the bills. Would you say that you're, I don't know, like just kind of resentful, like the way that like, it's all like the military just like shoved you out. And at that point, you had to fend for yourself, essentially. Yeah,

: 22:46

I mean, I'm really resentful towards the military, not even a little bit, I'm really resentful. Just

Jen Amos: 22:52

just laughing. I don't want to

: 22:55

say of how they did it, I was a career recruiter, I would have never deployed, if I would have deployed as a career, things would have been very, very wrong. And the issues that I had was Crohn's disease. And for that, I would have to go and get an injection every four weeks, pretty much for the rest of my life. And they're like, Okay, well, you could have this life saving surgery that you need, but then we're gonna metaphor to you. Wow. And like a dummy. At first, I was like, I'm not gonna have it. I've been walking around with these issues for five years. I couldn't make it, you know, seven more years. But then I'm like, Wait, what am I doing? Like, why am I putting the military that really doesn't care about anyone, kind of like in front of my life in front of my family. So I decided to have the surgery. Almost immediately after, after the surgery, the med board kicked off, and it was very, very cut and dry. Wow. It kicked off in October. I had all of my bindings and my unfit rating and everything by I want to say like, February and then by May I was out. Oh, man. I was very, very, very quick. Just Swift. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, people don't realize the things that the military kind of takes away from you. And then when you get out, it's just kind of like the little stuff. Like, I told my boss, I was like, Hey, I'm thinking about going to New York this weekend. And she was like, Okay. Like, why are you telling me just just go to New York and I go, there's my paperwork that I fill out. She goes, Are you taking PTO time? Like, what's PTO? Time off? No, I don't think so. She goes, Yeah, so just go to New York. And it's just like little things like that, that you know, before you're very restricted Then everything was like, by the book and black and white tour when you get out. It's not like that it's a lot more freedom.

Jen Amos: 25:07

Yeah, yeah. It's It's interesting how you know how restricted it is, like after the fact, when you find yourself asking your employer for permission on every little detail. I mean, that sounds like a pleasant culture shock in a way, because it's like, oh, I can make my own choices. You know, I can do this.

: 25:25

I think there are some terms we have to clear up for, you know, the folks that like, haven't experienced this post military life yet PTO has paid time off. Most of it and jobs offer that, you know, I think another thing, I was never in the military have been a military spouse, that is my connection. And you know, I'm in a job now or like, a situation came up, and I took some time off, and people were like, are you in terminal leave? And I'm like, what a military thing to say. Like, nope, literally took vacation. Yeah. You know, so it's meshing the two together is often really, really interesting, because there are those like, very specifically civilian things, and those very specific military things. And sometimes the two never shall meet. And then you're left in this weird chasm of trying to figure out what everyone's talking about, you know, I've just found that very, very funny. And the same, like I realized that because you know, Matt, and I've been married 13 years, you know, and I'm so used. And I have spent many of those 13 years without a career, that my engrain is to talk about things in terms of the military, like, He's on leave, and then civilians a year and like, he's leaving what? And I'm like, No, it's vacation. It's weird. Like, you know, just some of those that even in my current civilian job, when I say things like that, or I go to my boss and go, so I have to go out of town. And she's like, great. Put it in the system. Like is no, it's fine.

Jen Amos: 27:00

Yeah, this reminds me of our previous conversation with Laurie Norris in regards to how to translate your, you know, resume, you know, your experience in military into the civilian world. And how she said, like, Yeah, you don't put like NCO in your resume, you got to put like, manager, you know, like, civilians will understand that as like manager, for example. So it truly is a whole different culture, a whole different language, you are new transition out, but either way, grant, it sounds like you've really embraced your civilian life. And you know, having the calm demeanor or personality, you have at least on this on this call. I wouldn't think like I can't even like imagine that you went through all that. Because it just seems like you are in a happier place. Would you say that? Like you're kind of in a happier time in your life a happier season in your life?

: 27:45

Yeah, yeah, 100%, I do not miss the Navy at all. Like, you may not be able to tell by the stuff hanging on my wall. But it used to be a lot worse, I used to have, I would probably say like 400 challenge coins, and I drink the Kool Aid heavily. And I had all the T shirts and hats. And another seven, when I got out, I was like, this stuff is absolutely worthless. So I sold, I'd say about like, 80% of it. The only things that I have left are like things that really meant something to me. And even like this, like the Trident that I have back here. But that's that was just like a petty gift for myself. I didn't. Yeah, I didn't pay my dues to be part of the Jim Smith. And they wouldn't give me a going away gift. Wish I didn't need one. So literally, on that thing, it says you didn't pay your dues, so you didn't get a going away gift and I bought it myself. I love it, just to kind of like remind me of the culture that the military was like to where it's like, Oh, we didn't get your $250 a year for absolutely nothing. We're not giving you a going away gift. We don't care about all the things that you did. Professionally here. We needed your $250 Wow, I still won't give it to you. I'll just by myself.

Jen Amos: 29:15

I find it like fascinating talking to veterans in general, where there's sort of this, you know, for lack of better term like anti government sentiment and just sort of like the distaste or resentment of the military experience. And, you know, I'm gonna say that we can say this here on holding on the fort because, you know, I'm not on active duty. So I can say, I feel like I can say things, but also, you know, you sharing your story also reminds me of like Scott, my husband, like, you know, he went to West Point and, you know, they had conditioned him to believe like, oh, you know, you and your classmates are likely to be in America's history books, you know, like there was just this, like, huge sense of pride for being in West Point. And it's interesting because we have his, you know, his uniform that he graduated with, like in storage and you want to toss it it, and I'm like, I'm like, Honey, don't toss it that might be good for the kids, like, you know, our future kids, they might want to see this. But, you know, just sort of that, like, you know, resentment of the service is it's real, and it's valid. And I think I think it's worth noting as well, I hope that our conversation doesn't necessarily like discourage people or want them to transition out sooner. But I do think that your experience, what you went through, is very valid. And so I do appreciate, you know, us kind of having more of a talk more of like the darker side of the military and transition and post military life. So looking back now grant, for service members who are contemplating transition, or are in the process of transitioning, or even, like, have that abrupt early transition. Do you have any advice? Any thoughts that you want us to share with those service members?

Unknown Speaker: 30:46

Yeah, do it. Don't look back,

Jen Amos: 30:55

quote of this episode? Like, just do it?

: 30:58

Yeah, it's, you know, it's gonna be terrifying. It's definitely going to be a transition. Yeah. You know, just like, when you joined, and everything was brand new, and you are learning everything, and you're learning this new way of life, it's going to be the same exact way when you get out, doesn't matter. If you do four years, or if you do 30 years, the feeling is going to be exactly the same. It's gonna be like, What is this new world that I'm stepping into? That? You know, I'll tell you one about me like, my first job. When I was doing the onboarding process, they asked me about my pronouns. Wow, I had no idea what pronouns were. And this was, this was last year. And that just shows how a lot of people aren't ready to get out. And that's not something that they talk about in taps or anything like that. They're like, okay, Grant, what are your pronouns? And then I'm like, I was so nervous to say something that will offend the other people like, which pronouns should I use, like, not offend someone else? And they're like, no, no, no, it's not like that. Just which ones do you prefer? So just like something like that, to me was I didn't really understand what it was because we never spoke about it before. But so yeah, it just kind of like, be ready, start networking, get on LinkedIn, you know, network on LinkedIn, because 75% of corporate job referrals right now are corporate jobs. I guess, like, interview right now. corporate job interviews right now, are referrals. So if you can't do skill bridge, I wasn't allowed to do skill bridge, I had to go into a job with a referral, it is very difficult to get into a job, just kind of like, you know, oh, I applied for Microsoft today. And then they saw my application and moves me forward. So network, try to get referrals, get your resume professionally written. I know they have services out there, that'll do it for free. If you can't find a service that will do free, come out of pocket for it. It's 100% worth it. If you're gonna do your resume by yourself. I know like you said earlier, nobody's gonna care that you're a division leave Chief Petty Officer. They don't know what that is. Yeah. Nobody's gonna care that you're a Surface Warfare qualified. Again. They don't know that means they care about how many people did you manage? How did you manage? What was the impact? Not I loaded 15 missiles. There need to know about that, you know, they need to try to word that a little bit differently.

Jen Amos: 33:42

I want to know how we would word that differently.

Unknown Speaker: 33:45

Yeah. Packing cargo.

: 33:48

Yeah, you have to spend it in a way to win a civilian, it's gonna understand and, you know, I posted this earlier. Not once out of the many job interviews that I've had. Has anyone ever asked me what my rank was? How many times have deployed how many Navy achievement medals I've had? They didn't care. Honestly, they didn't even care about my degree. Like I put on my resume. And on my application that I had a degree. Nobody asks, oh, yeah, it was like, Oh, you went to this school? Or like, Oh, you have a master's and like other Okay, cool. That's hilarious. Yeah.

: 34:28

I was gonna say, I mean, I'm of the era where, like, you know, we were taught how to resume building College. Like, you also put your GPA on there. And I'm like, nobody cares. Like, No, literally, no one has asked me like, you know, I talked about my own career journey from, you know, I have an undergraduate degree in Marketing Management, a master's degree in elementary education, and now I advocate for mental health and literally, it you know, it's the fact that I have a degree, not what I did or what my GPA was that, that that matters. So it's funny to hear all of that. And all of the wording in the resume I no worries episode releases today. And it was fun talking to her about the same like, yeah, being able to translate all that stuff is such a skill really necessary, and there is a way to do it. And I think you're kind of talking to that about, you know, like, No, I think the the message really is like, know who you are, and how you behave as a leader versus like, numbers and awards kind of thing.

: 35:32

Yeah, I will say, though, that almost every single interview that I've had, especially the interview that I had with Amazon, evaluations, or fit reps in the Navy, helped me tremendously. That is the only skills that I will say that I took from the Navy and maybe public speaking, that has translated directly into the civilian world, because almost every interview that I've had, they call it the STAR method. For me, it was just action impact result. What did you do? What did it impact it? Or how did it impact? Whatever you're doing? And what were the results? And as long as you answer every single interview question like that, you're gonna do great.

Unknown Speaker: 36:15

Be your best own best type guy. Yeah, like,

Jen Amos: 36:19

yeah, and I also want to put an emphasis on what you mentioned earlier, grant, which is the importance of networking in the civilian world, your network is your net worth. And there's a really good term from JD Vance called social capital, like one thing that most people don't have is social capital, they don't know the importance of socializing, connecting, you know, relationship building, because it's those relationships that advocate for you that, you know, move your resume from the bottom of the pile to the top. I remember, like, back in the day when I did work, jobs, you know, all the jobs I ever got in my young 20s was because people knew me, they referred me. And I even remember one of the jobs I got, like, I was already hired. And then my boss was like, Oh, by the way, can you give me your resume? So do I could just put on file, it's like, they didn't even ask for it ahead of time. And so I think that's something that's extremely important to emphasize is the is networking and building those relationships early on. Of course, there are a ton of nonprofits and organizations out there helping military, military connected people, service members and veterans, build those relationships, build those connections. And, you know, I think it's about having that desire to want to seek those out as well. More importantly. All right, well, Grant, as we wrap up here, I really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you for just being so open and candid, and detailed. You know, in your, in your story today. Are there any final takeaways or call to actions that you would like to leave our listeners with?

: 37:45

Yeah, I mean, I would say that, you know, even though I don't like, I don't want to say spoke badly about the Navy or the military. I'm glad that I did it. And am I glad that I did 13 years, probably not, I probably should have only done like, four. But I'm definitely happy that I did it because it did put me on the right rejected path or my future. And also, I think the reason why veterans are kind of like, a little bit disgruntled towards the service is because we see the way that you know, servicemembers are treated once we get out and the conditions that were in that we just thought were normal. And we got out I was like, oh my god, did I really do that? Did I really sit in a porta Potti in the middle of the desert, like, that's horrible that I really sleep in a tent in like 130 degree weather for for nothing for a minimum wage. So I think it's because like, we see that junior service vendors should not be having no service members should be having mold in their barracks rooms, they should not be having cold water, they should not be having no AC, when you're at, you know, a base in the United States. Yeah. And that's why veterans are so like, pushing back against the military. You know, we love the Brotherhood, and we love everything that it brought. But now I think, you know, we want to take care of those that are in and the things that we couldn't have said before, just because there's so much red tape around it. And I'd say kind of like the last thing is just, even when you're out, don't be afraid to go and talk to people. Don't be afraid to go and talk to someone in the mental health field. You know, just find what you're into and put all of your words out there and everything that's on your chest and everything that's on your mind and you know, it's gonna make you feel a lot better.

Jen Amos: 39:52

Love it. And while we're at it, grant because I know that you had openly you know, shared your contact information on Reddit and You know, still want to be a resource yourself, why don't you let people know how they can get a hold of you if they want to reach out?

: 40:05

Yeah, I mean, you could find me on Facebook, Instagram, really everywhere WhatsApp, tick tock, Reddit, LinkedIn, find me on LinkedIn. You know, my phone numbers out there. And I, you know, you're more than welcome to put all the candles and everything in the description if you'd like. But yeah, I'm still a very open person that you can get in contact with.

Jen Amos: 40:31

Cool, well, you definitely give off that vibe, and you seem very approachable and understanding and helpful. So thank you, Grant,

: 40:39

I think I just really appreciate you sharing your experience, strength and hope today and wrapping up with you know, even though your experience, especially like what forced you out of the service was not stellar, you know, that you continue to advocate for those of us who are still active duty and and in that culture. And I think, you know, it really speaks to some of the things that I hope leadership is listening to in the changing of the culture and putting, you know, health and wellness of the soldier, sailor Marine, you know, air gosh, there's so many now, airmen, Guardian Coast Guard, I think I got all six down first, so that we do have a healthier service environment overall, not just for the individual, but for the family. And then for the greater, you know, service departments. I appreciate that you've been a consistent voice and trying to change that culture and make sure that we have the healthiest people you know, who are in service.

Unknown Speaker: 41:45

Absolutely. Thank you.

Jen Amos: 41:47

Awesome. Well, with that said, Grant, thank you again, so much for joining us. We really enjoyed this conversation. And I'm sure our listeners will as well to our listeners, of course, if you want to get a hold of grant will provide his contact information in the show notes or you can look him up on Reddit, maybe it's still there who knows. But that being said, thank you all so much for joining us and we'll chat with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.