011: The importance of a side hustle - even if you are not legally allowed to work - with Julie Cohen

Jen Amos 0:00

There's no need to wait on your service member to share a second hand information anymore. Welcome to holding down the fort, a podcast show where we put military spouses and children's needs front and center so that they can make informed decisions together as a family. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. Let's get started.

All right. Hi, everyone. Jen amo is here with holding down the fort podcast show. And I'm really excited, I get to introduce you to Julie Cohen. She's a freelance writer and editor who co owns military moms blog, a parenting website for military families. Julie, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 0:51

Thanks, Jen. Happy to be here.

Jen Amos 0:54

Yes, we're very happy to speak with you. I know we've been talking with Christie for some time now. And so we're just really happy to have someone from the military moms blog represent the day in talking about what you do, and even just your own personal story as a military spouse. So thank you so much for being on. Thanks. Cool. So let's go ahead and start by sharing how did you hear about the show? And more importantly, what inspired you to speak on the show today?

Speaker 1 1:21

Well, I just really like what holding down the fort is doing and I feel like I definitely goes along with our mission at military moms blog. When Christy and I launched military moms blog a little over two years ago, we felt that because military families move so often, something was lacking. As far as having a community you know, you always have the community where you're going to live next. But that community is always new. And we want to build a virtual community, I feel like holding down the fort mission is somewhat doing the same thing as far as having resources for military families, military spouses, and just being placed where people can listen,

Jen Amos 2:02

oh, I'm very happy to hear that. And you know, with this show, our goal is to really bring on people who are in the community who are living it experiencing it, rather than just getting the cookie cutter information you would normally get on base for that reason to build a sense of community. And so I'm glad that it does sound like we have that in common. And we're glad to have you come on today and just continue the spirit of building community. Okay, well, Julie, for people who are getting to know you for the first time, why don't you just share with our listeners, what a typical day for you looks like maybe a snapshot of your life. And more importantly, what keeps you busy and most excited nowadays?

Speaker 1 2:43

Well, for starters, we're currently stationed in Northern Italy with my husband's job in the Air Force. So our life is definitely different than it ever has been. And my structure my day is different as well, first of all in Italy, and something that not everyone knows is that under the SOFA agreement, military spouses actually can't work. I don't know the exact details. But I do know that there was an agreement made, I believe, because Italy's unemployment is fairly high. And just with the Air Force existing on a NATO base, it was just an agreement where military spouses are not allowed to work and thus take away jobs from Italians. So it offers kind of a certain set of challenges for military spouses who come? Because for many, it's like, whoa, wait a second, I can't work. What am I supposed to do? Particularly for spouses who don't have children yet, or you know, are many children, and even people with children, once I got used to the idea, it was a little bit freeing, just because that has always been something I like working, I find my identity and usually what my job is, so here, I was like, Oh, well, I can technically work. So what do I actually like to do? And that kind of was part of military moms blog, because it took away the pressure of okay, well, we aren't really planning on having me work anyway, you know, we can't really plan on a set income I'm bringing in so I can really think about what I want to do what I want to focus on. Something else that is very cool about Italy, is that childcare is very affordable. So it took away because typically in the US, you're gonna have your kids in any sort of childcare before kindergarten, it's going to cost you so much money so that either you need to have a full time job that has a very good paycheck. Or you just feel at least for me, like okay, well, if I'm barely making enough money to pay for my kids childcare, why am I doing it? It's like, well, I'm doing it because I want to do it. But you know, then you really start to think about like, well, is this work? The should I be home with my kids. But in Italy, the childcare is amazing. It's extremely affordable, if not free starting when a child is three years old, it's, you're only paying for them to eat lunch if they're doing Italian preschool. So my kids are doing that. And so I don't have to think about, okay, am I making you know, $2,000 a month, in order to pay for my kids childcare to make it worthwhile. Instead, it's like, no, like, they can go to childcare, that's like, not even an issue. And whatever I'm making is whatever I'm making, and it's fine. So it kind of have like a different relationship with how I'm working, which is just very unique, and only going to be during the short part of my life. But basically, so my kids are in childcare will not yet they haven't even started school yet. But once they do, so that frees up my day a lot. And that has given me time to work on military moms blog.

Speaker 2 5:58

I like how you say that, when you were put in a position, especially in Italy right now, where you literally are legally not allowed to work. You saw that as a freeing experience, where from a lot of stories I've heard from military spouses where they can't work, it almost seems like debilitating or like a setback. And so I think that's a very interesting perspective. And I think for the military spouse that's listening in to, if you are in a similar situation, to consider seeing yourself in a freeing situation as well, and being open to exploring what you're passionate about, as opposed to trying to find a job to identify with. I thought that was a very, that was a very unique way of you saying that Julie

Speaker 1 6:47

thinks, and it has been really great for that. Because I haven't always felt like that. And our last assignment, I wasn't able to find work for a little while. And it was very hard for me, because I wanted to work. I hadn't planned on being home, I was a newer mom, and didn't really see myself being a stay at home mom. So it was kind of like, Oh, I didn't choose to do this. And now, because of our unique situation, I still get tons and tons of time with my kids. But I also get to pursue my passions. Building the website and running the blog and editing the blog is part of what I am trained to do. I you know, I'm a former journalist and editor. So I mean, that worked out with my skill set. But I think if I was in a different situation where I didn't know how much money I was going to be bringing in, oh, maybe I won't be making any money. It wouldn't necessarily have pursued it. Because I think a lot of what we do we measure by the money we make, which makes sense. But we don't always have that freedom.

Jen Amos 7:52

Yeah, absolutely. So I'd love to get into our educational topic today. Part of the reason why this show exists is to create awareness of resources and education that can be available for military spouses and families to continue holding down the fort, especially while their service member is away, or really just to stay occupied while the service member is away. And even if they're not a way to have something for yourself. And so for you, Julie, today, you wanted to talk about the importance of a side hustle for spouses, even if they are in a position where they can't work. I'd love for you to first start by sharing what is a side hustle. And if you want to include military mom blogs, as an example for yourself, feel free to include that?

Speaker 1 8:36

Well, I think side hustle can be a number of things. I would say it's anything you're doing on top of what is your job. So you know, for somebody who has a full time job, it might be, you know, they're an artist, the art they make at night. Or if someone's a full time mom, whatever extra thing where maybe it brings in a little bit of money, maybe it brings in a lot of money. But usually it comes out of a situation where it's not your full time job. And it's really, I think, generally a passion project. Because if you're trying to fit that into your day, a day that's already full, and it's definitely going to be a side hustle, and it's on the side and definitely a hustle. Yeah,

Jen Amos 9:20

I'm curious to learn a little bit more about, let's say like monetizing, because I know you're in a situation where you aren't able to work. And and when you're working on a side hustle, it's not. You mentioned a little bit about how it doesn't always have to have like monetary ties to it. And so could you elaborate on that a

Speaker 1 9:37

little more? Yeah, well, so a couple things. So one, since in Italy, you can't technically work. People do things based on donation. So it's a little bit of a workaround, but for instance, if I was good at doing hair, which I'm not, but I could do people's hair and they could donate To me, same with babysitting. So a lot of people find their side hustle that way. And it's really cool to see how people do it. Like some people I know, cook, like one woman is an amazing, she makes amazing Thai food. And so that's become her side hustle, and people will pay her to make them Thai food just out of her house. And I think that's so fun. Because, you know, in the US, who knows, if she would have been making Thai food out of her house, or even feeling the confidence to say, Oh, hey, like, I'm a cook, I'm gonna make this food in my kitchen, I'm gonna, you're gonna pay me for it that hear it's like, oh, well, I need to like reach into myself and figure out what do I do? Like for me, I can edit, I can help people with their websites. And it might not be something I even want to charge for. But it's something that I know that I'm pretty good at. And I think other people might appreciate it. So I think that can be a side hustle, too. And because I think a large part of having a side hustle, particularly for a military spouse who might be in the situation. And this is, you know, beyond living in Italy, where we're not technically allowed to work, say, like when we we've lived in San Antonio before here. And when I couldn't find a job right away, the idea of having a side hustle, I think is also just a form of self care. Like, I think a lot of times self care gets overused with like, oh, self care is taking a bath or reading a book or drinking a glass of wine. But for me, self care is working, feeling productive, and my work, making me feel respected. So yes, of course, I want to make money, I want to contribute to my family. But you also have to think why you want to work beyond the paycheck. And so if that means you are doing something that people respect you for that I think that is like great for your mental health, great for yourself care. And so that's just kind of figuring out what you're good at and what you can do on the side of what you're already doing.

Jen Amos: 12:12

Yeah, there's two big things that stood out to me and what you just said, the first thing is asking for donations, I, I never thought that would be a a workaround. And I think that's really clever. So for military spouses that are listening, and you're in a situation where you technically cannot work, consider asking for donations, and more importantly, asking for getting donations from doing something that you're passionate about. So I think that is really awesome. The second thing that you mentioned, which is really the last thing you just mentioned, is how you see a side hustle as self care. My husband and I, we run a business together and a couple of other little things. But I have projects that are just mine, and mine only. And sometimes I can spend more time on them than the stuff I do with him by but just like what you said, I have found it to be very therapeutic for me to have like my own passion projects. And even if I just earn the monetary part to it, maybe a little bit of money here and there. It's not really about that. It's more about the fact that I get to practice my express my creativity and connect with other people outside of what I'm doing with my husband, and just feel good overall. So I just love that you added that component. I think that I think that's the first time I've personally heard that and highly recommend it for our listeners who are looking for other ways for self care considering a side hustle. All right, now we're going to take a quick break to introduce one of our sponsors. Let's Get Real. The government our education system, the financial industry and corporations are focused on the masses. They don't have your best interest in mind. You need to take responsibility of your future and stop falling orders when it comes to your personal finances. The first step is to stop focusing on money and focus on your true purpose. Wealth is achieved by those who are following their passions. It's a mindset shift from scarcity to abundance. There's no better time in human history to use the Liberty you fought for to live a life of meaning. US Fed wealth was founded by a West Point graduate who became disillusioned by the government benefits and traditional financial planning advice that is decades behind the times. Our clients recognize us as the only trusted financial resource able to educate them on the full spectrum of opportunities available to veterans today. By thinking beyond the standard financial advice of buying a home, sending kids to college and retiring. We help the 1% who serve our country become the 1% who influence it. See if you qualify for a wealth and liberty strategy today simply visit us that wealth.com That's us as in the United States that short for veteran wealth.com us but wealth.com

: 14:58

thanks yeah I think too, one other thing that I've not necessarily learned while in Italy, but it's definitely crystallized itself a bit, is it's kind of the cliche that Oh, Italians live to work instead of, or no, they work to live instead of live to work. And Americans, you know, live to work, they work too much, blah, blah, blah. And I think that's kind of simplifying like Italians versus versus Americans. But I do think there's something to be said for that, that people's jobs are not the first thing they talk about. It's not necessarily like their end all be all, I think, at least for me, perhaps it's a millennial thing. I think, I think I'm technically a millennial cusper. But this idea that the job that I was supposed to get in life was supposed to be satisfying, and challenging and creative and flexible, and still gives me time with my family, but also pays me really well. And through the military life, I've had a lot of different jobs, and I can safely say, I've had a couple of jobs that for most people, they'd considered a dream job. And it still wasn't a dream job. I don't think like that perfect job exists. And I think just like seeing the Italian lifestyle, where it's like, most people, I don't even know what their job is, because they don't talk about it, they don't ask you, because it's just like, not that important. And, like, I would like to think what I do is important to me, but at the same time, sometimes a job. Like for instance, one of my most favorite jobs I've ever had was being a waitress, which is certainly not what I went to college and grad school for. But when I look back, and like, you know what, I had a lot of fun, I actually made pretty good money, I make good friends, I got a good workout. And then when I went home, my brain was completely clear to write, which is like what my biggest passion would be. And other times where I've been, you know, a newspaper editor or magazine editor, I didn't want to write at all when I got home. So you know, kind of like just thinking about the job I do, doesn't necessarily have to tick all the boxes, I think it needs to, because maybe a different job will actually do that. And I don't even know it, because I've kind of trained my brain to think otherwise. And so going back to the idea of the side hustle, I think when you start exploring other types of jobs and other things you can do, then I think sometimes that could lead you to actually figuring out what what works best for you.

Jen Amos: 17:45

Yeah, I agree. And sometimes it's good to have that balance. Like sometimes it's good to work a job you don't like so that you appreciate what you're passionate about that much more with, with what I do with my husband, like, a couple years ago, I was really passionate about it. But now it's like a It's kind of like my my daytime job. And, you know, I can't say I was passionate about it as I was before. But it's more of like a commitment that, okay, this is what I'm doing. But when I get to my when I get to my side hustles and my side projects, it just really I feel like that's where my passion really comes out. However, if I know that if I were to switch it around, and focus on my passion projects first, I wouldn't have that same. I feel like the commitment would feel more of like an obligation and maybe even a responsibility to make it profitable, then to actually enjoy it.

Unknown Speaker: 18:40

Completely. I know isn't that funny how that works?

Jen Amos: 18:43

Yeah, so I've just kind of learned to be like, you know, what, it's everything's necessary, you need to have things that you just, you know, you just have to get through, you know, you have to deal with it. So that you can really appreciate the things that you really want to get to. But I think the phrase here is like delayed gratification. If you get something right away, like if you go to a fast food restaurant, and you get that first bite out of your Big Mac, it's like it's great at first, and you get it quickly and it's convenient. But when you consume it quickly, you eventually regret it. Were like if you wait for something like if you cook something and it takes a while and you have to really put it all together and stuff. When you finally get to it, it's like you have to go through that work that's not as enjoyable to get to the final product where it actually will taste good. And I think that's what looking at a job and a side hustle is like I think they really do complement each other.

: 19:32

And I think if you have your side hustle or your passion projects on the side, I think it kind of takes the pressure off your full time job. Because even if your full time job is being a stay at home mom and running your household, which I'm sort of doing now and it's the hardest job I've ever had, so i i 100% Consider it a full time job. But if you have your other thing on the side, it takes the pressure off if you're like Uh oh, um, you know, working this dumb, boring job. In this cubicle, I hate what I'm doing. But then if you're doing your other thing, and it's like, oh, okay, it's fine. But like, let's think about what's good about the job. Maybe I have a lot of fun with friends. I don't love that work. But if I have fun with friends, then no, I've had a really fun job before, but the people I love who I worked with. So the metabolism is great. So yeah, I think having your own thing on the side just kind of alleviates the pressure that that job is supposed to do so many things for you and your mental health and your well being. Yeah,

Jen Amos: 20:34

I think it's like with any relationship like like a side hustle is good. Just like how you have multiple friends, you can't have one friend that could do everything for you. And it's really unrealistic and unfair to have like one friend do that. And that's why you need to have a variety. So I think I think that's a healthy way to look at all of this. And for anyone that is in a situation that you're just like, Oh, I hate going through this. Hopefully, it'll give you something to look forward to, like a passion project or a side hustle. And if you don't have that, definitely consider it. Because after everything we talked about today, for especially about self care, that might be the one thing you need to really get you through your day. Awesome. Julie, I think we covered a lot of awesome advice, or the importance of why you should have a side hustle, especially for spouses. Do you have any other tips you'd like to share any other advice on why spouses should have a side hustle, maybe like more mindset, like ways to look at it? Just any more advice you have around it?

: 21:36

Well, I think you just need to think about what you like about your job, and why you want to work like what exactly do you want to get out of it? You know, are you in it? For a big paycheck? That's completely fine. But is that your number one priority? Are you in it to simply get out of the house, and just really think about when you are looking for whatever it is you need to do, whether it's like your full time job or your side hustle. So one thing on military moms blog that we try and do you know, a lot of our articles are on parenting and friendship and different aspects of the military lifestyle. But every now and then too, we try to provide tangible information such as recently we published about the new licensing reimbursement program, which is pretty confusing, just to let you know, I think what's cool about a side hustle is that you can bring it wherever you move. So say you're a lawyer, and you're like moving to a new place, and you're trying to figure out the reciprocity of it. And it's like just taking a while, or if you're a teacher, but then you need to be recertified because, again, you're in a new state, or, you know, you're a physical therapist, and you have to get re license. This is just it's a very arduous long process. But if you have that other thing that you like, that you do on the side, that will always be with you. It's portable. And that can help ground you, particularly when you have these big moves and these big challenges. And then lo and behold, if you end up in Italy, where you're like, Oh, well turns out, I can't actually be a lawyer, then you have that thing that you also have on the side. And I think it helps ground your identity as well. Because if your identity is all wrapped up in one thing, especially in this military lifestyle, it can be taken away. That's very jarring.

Jen Amos: 23:45

For me, part of why I have been self employed for my entire adult life is because as a military child, I was already conditioned to start over every time and I found that the one thing that just was constant for me was the internet. And so very early on, I had online friends, I taught myself how to type just so I can connect with my online friends. Yeah. And then when I was introduced to blogging, that that became my new way of journaling. And then no and it just one thing led to another before you know it I you know, I just had a website for myself. And then one day people were asking, I remember I was at this networking event, and I was selling something else at the time. But people were asking me about social media because I was in office. I was just volunteering as a social media officer because I thought everyone knew how to do it. Because I've been like doing it since I was young. And then one day someone asked me like, oh, how much do you charge for your services? And then that became my side hustle. And that was like a good a good side hustle that turned into a business for me for about five years. That's actually like my past life now, but it's just so crazy how what you learn, I think through the military experience is what you can hold on to whether it's physically or even just like like virtually and the end or net gives I believe the Internet gives a lot of power to, to military spouses and families to do something and, and even if not the internet, just having a skill set that you worked on the side that you can use again.

: 25:12

And that reminds me to when you said, the friend asks you how much you charge. That is one thing I keep running into, especially here. And along the lines of the donation thing too. I think it takes guts to ask people for money, but I think it is really important when you feel ready. Like I've had multiple friends who take amazing photos, and you know, really got into it, bought the right lenses have the right software, and just never ever asked for money. You know, I kept saying like, you need to ask for money, just like a little bit. You know, whatever you feel comfortable, you need to ask for something, it makes a difference. Just it's not like, like, yes, of course, money is important. But I also think it's symbolic. Because I think it shows real respect for your work. And I think that's really hard to do, especially when you've been doing it for free. And that's kind of the cool thing about the military lifestyle. So say you honed your skills, being a photographer at one duty base. And then the next one, you're like, okay, that this one I charge money. You know, it's like maybe the last thing you did now it's like, Okay, now, let's put that website up. Yeah, absolutely. I

Jen Amos: 26:28

think one way that I had learned to set my prices back then was I thought about my lifestyle, and how, like how much I needed to survive, and then some maybe maybe twice as much as that. And then I would set my pricing sort of around that kind of like, okay, if I have to make let's say, a measly $1,000 a month. And let's say that I charge a client, like $100 per client for a month, okay, I need to get 10 clients to make $1,000 Just to sustain my lifestyle, and sometimes even just to make your investment back, like if you did buy those expensive lenses, and camera and equipment to just do enough to get your money back. I think that's a good start as well, in terms of, you know, knowing your worth, because you made that financial investment and even just to get get it back would be, I think a win win for yourself.

: 27:17

Well, yeah. And I think remembering, you know, if people are asking you to take their photos, even if it's just your friends, it's because you take good photos. And it's because that person asking you doesn't or doesn't want to, or simply won't take their family photo because they're in the family. So you should remember, you're doing something that's really important. And it's okay to ask for money. Because you know, you gotta respect yourself to.

Jen Amos: 27:43

Yeah, I feel like we could have a whole other episode talking about your financial worth.

: 27:50

Yes, I know that is tangential, but it's definitely part of the side hustle.

Jen Amos: 27:55

Yes, absolutely. And it's a good it's a good opportunity to explore that, not just once, once you feel comfortable doing free work, at least if you're doing free work, get something out of it, like get a testimonial, get build your portfolio, and then even ask your customers like if how much they would have paid you. If if they did pay you. And that's a good way to kind of gauge like how much you should set your pricing. We had a colleague where he was working on something new. And I was like, well just do it for free. And then ask the person like in exchange, ask them for feedback, and then how much they would have charged you. And so with that he was able to determine his pricing moving forward. And that was a that was a really cool way to kind of figure out like how much you're worth through other people. So awesome. I think those were all awesome, awesome tips. Julie. For our listeners. If you have any more questions or comments or anything about the show, we'd love for you to reach out to us, you'll be able to do that in the show notes. Alright, so Julie Cohen, freelance writer and editor who co owns military moms blog, a parenting website for military families. I want to thank you so much for being on our show today. In case anyone is interested in learning more about you, Julie, and military moms blog or just anything else about what you're up to? How can they get a

: 29:11

hold of you? First of all, thanks so much for having me on. And you can email me at Julie at military moms blog.com. Or my social media is all private, but my Twitter is not. And that is Julie Anna Cohen. Again, thank you so much for having me.

Jen Amos: 29:32

Yeah, it's my absolute pleasure. And I want to thank our listeners today for listening in. If you didn't catch that, don't worry. That'll be in the show notes. Julie Cohen. It was such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much again for being on our show today.

Unknown Speaker: 29:44

Thanks for having me by Jen.